Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Aimee Prasek: Well, welcome everyone, Aimee here, just me, and we are continuing our conversation from last episode about imposter phenomenon. Unfortunately, better known as imposter syndrome. So, you may want to head back to last episode to understand why I hate that term. Imposter syndrome, maybe to get a better hold of what we're digging into.
but here's, here's a bit of a summary. I think this will help. Imposter syndrome is a myth. You do not have a [00:01:00] syndrome. You are not broken. Imposter phenomenon is a better term that identifies these imposter like feelings that get stirred up because of a variety of contributors, variables, factors, whatever you want to call them.
And these are the things that feel like, that increase these imposter feelings. And we're going to get into those top factors today.Six of them. I think we're going to name. I'll order them from least impactful to most impactful. And I am assembling a large and diverse body of research really here to do this.
So it is, and it's just not as methodologically sound as I'd like, or objective as I'd like, but I'm going to do my best. So feel free to just be open to these factors and see which one is more true for you. So number [00:02:00] six, you're experiencing anxiety. And that's okay. So much of the research on imposter phenomenon is really talking about anxiety. And, as we say here, anxiety is not a weakness.
It is something we can work on. That's a lot of what we do in Joy Lab and over at Natural Mental Health. And so this really is a very significant contributor to imposter feelings. Probably one of the most impactful. Maybe it should be one, but it's also a consequence of really all of the other factors we're going to talk about today.
And so I think it's really helpful to just put it right here, set the stage so that we can kind of carry it out into, and see it in the, in the next factors that we're going to talk about. So, let's do just that. Number 5, you don't know, and that's okay. So, you don't have imposter syndrome. You don't know, and that's okay. Okay.
Let's back [00:03:00] way up then to talk about this. So, assuming that you don't know what you're doing in a particular context, or you don't have the abilities, you lack the skills or the knowledge And so that's actually not within this true, or, you know, golden definition of what imposter phenomenon is, which I actually think is an oversight, because this is where imposter feelings can really show up as well.
So, not knowing something, not being able to do something, that doesn't mean you're an imposter. It's part of being human and part of learning and continual practice that is necessary in this life. But that is not the message that we often get, right? There is a lot of pressure to know everything, to not admit that you don't know, to avoid, being perceived as not knowing exactly the right answer at every moment.
That kind of pressure we put on [00:04:00] ourselves and others is really damaging. And it, it really makes us all feel like frauds. And that's the least of the negative impacts, I think. So one of the strategies here is to really practice some self awareness and some self compassion to identify the areas where you can grow.. And then offer the compassion to help yourself do just that. And I'll link to some tools to do that in the show notes. And even more specifically, there's a really helpful concept to explore that's called intellectual humility. And we've talked a bit about that in some episodes, and I will link to that as well.
So a little bit outside of imposter phenomenon as it's defined, but I think it's really important to know that imposter feelings can show up in that space where, yeah, we might not know, and that's okay, and to try to find some comfort in that space of uncertainty.
Number four, you don't have imposter syndrome, you are an [00:05:00] introvert in an extroverted world. Now, this might not be true for you, but nonetheless, take a listen. We reward extroversion in U. S. culture, and it is not a good thing. To reward extroversion, dismissing the skills, the benefits that introverts offer, it is rewarding one way of showing up in the world at the cost of the other, and it creates an imbalance that ignites a lot of problems.
And that's not to say extroversion is bad, introversion is good, or the other way around. Those are two ways of just kind of moving in the world and within this massive spectrum, right? So, but here's how it relates to imposter feelings. If you lean more toward introversion, then you may tend to keep pieces, aspects of yourself more hidden from the external world. Which isn't a bad thing.
But according to some [00:06:00] research that can increase your feelings that the outside world doesn't really get you. That you're not seen for who you are. And that can be a big piece of having these imposter feelings. We feel fraughty, like we're not really showing up as our true selves, particularly when extroversion is rewarded. We may feel like our tendencies of introversion are wrong. We're not meeting that expectation of extroversion. So, if that feels right for you, here's what you can do to have some control until we rebalance our society here with how we treat extroversion and introversion. So check in and see if there are more ways to share more of yourself with others in ways that nourish you. And that's again, not to give unfair or give into this unfair pressure of having a culture that rewards extraversion, but it is [00:07:00] an invitation to open up, to reveal your inner self, introverted self and your interests and pick the folks who you want to share that with in ways that you can then feel supported as you share who you are.
Now, if you don't know if you're introverted or extroverted, head over to the show notes, I'll give you some, tools over there, or ambiverted, there's right? It's just, it's a whole spectrum of "-verted"-ness. All right. Number three. You don't have imposter syndrome, you are instead more motivated to perform than you are motivated to learn.
So we're digging in even more now. This factor is also generally linked up to having a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. If you're familiar with that kind of language. And so much of this research is coming from Dr. Carol Dweck. She did a lot of that growth mindset research. So I'm going to pull from, from her work to [00:08:00] explain this.
So here's the idea. If we have a belief that our intelligence, our abilities, even are fixed, that they are more unchangeable than they are changeable, then we are more likely to be motivated by what are called performance goals. Which means that we feel more motivated by external applause by the approval from others. And we may feel a stronger drive to prove to others that we know something or that we can do something. On the other hand, if you have a more growth mindset, you believe intelligence is more malleable.Old dogs can learn new tricks. If you fall there, then it's more likely you're motivated by learning goals. That means your motivation is more fueled by, just that, by learning, learning to increase your knowledge or skills rather than learning to prove something [00:09:00] to someone else.
And in Dweck's research, she has found that folks who are more motivated by performance goals, and who likely have more of that fixed mindset, react to failure really differently than folks who are more motivated by learning goals. Mainly, performance goal motivation is associated with a tendency to react to failures or mistakes in a more helpless way.
So, we're more likely to withdraw from the challenge in that scenario. We're more likely to blame ourselves for not achieving, like, as the sole, responsibility. And here's the kicker: there's a surge of anxiety and shame that kind of clouds over us amidst this. On the other hand, if you are more motivated by learning goals, then you're more likely to respond to a perceived failure in a more resilient way.
That [00:10:00] encourages you to improve or learn. And you might feel a surge of motivation, even excited to try and figure out maybe where you went wrong, like what you missed, try to fill in the blanks, and most of all, most importantly, you don't feel inadequate as often because of a mistake or failure. So, this relates to imposter phenomenon because these imposter feelings can really take root here. If we're relying on others to validate our intelligence, our skills, our self worth via those performance goals, that motivation, they can also take it away as quickly as they give it. So when they give it, then we feel as if our intelligence, our skills, we are worthy.
We are enough. But when they take it away, if all of our intelligence, skills are attached to that [00:11:00] external performance motivation, when they take it away, we are not enough. We feel like an imposter. Now, if you resonate with that fixed mindset or performance goals, then yeah. This is a hallmark training that we get in U. S. culture.These beliefs that like geniuses are born, everything's about natural talent, unicorns, overnight successes. There is a lot of attention to a bit more of this fixed mindset and these performance goals. There's a lot of messaging that perpetuates a fixed mindset. So a good place to work on this is actually in our element of curiosity here at the podcast and the Joy Lab program. And in the program, we work on a growth mindset throughout all of our experiments, really. So I'll link to some episodes as well in the show notes that talk about kind of, utilizing our element of curiosity to support more of a growth mindset. I think that'll be helpful.[00:12:00]
All right, the next factor is closely related to this one as they all kind of are. Two, you do not have imposter syndrome, but you had to be an imposter. I'm gonna have to sit down for this one. This is a, this is a really important factor to consider. And it doesn't get discussed with imposter feelings. I think that is, unfortunate.
It's due time. So the research here comes from work that looked at imposter phenomenon and correlations with a scale called the family environment scale. This is a scale that looks at the functioning and organizational structure of a family along with the relationships between members. So I'll explain the sub skills that are relevant here, and then this will all make more sense.
So first, impostor phenomenon scores were negatively correlated with the cohesion and [00:13:00] expressiveness subscales. That means the higher the imposter scores, the lower the cohesion and expressiveness scores. Let me explain. Cohesion assesses how supportive family members are of each other, and then expressiveness refers to really the degree of acceptance for each other's feelings.
So it is more likely that folks who feel more imposter feelings, it is more likely that they have grown up in a family environment that was not as supportive of each other and that was not very open to an authentic expression of emotions or feelings. I want to give a viral example here that I hope is helpful.
Disclaimer. I don't care where you fall in the political spectrum. So we'll try to bypass any immediate gut responses to, this example. Let's just take it at [00:14:00] at the visual example that we were given. All right, during the Democratic National Convention back in August, Minnesota governor and VP candidate Tim Walz gave a speech and his family was seen in the crowd
visibly crying. His son was crying, tears of joy, shouting, that's my dad! His daughter was crying, you know, throwing up hand hearts to her dad. They both just had this look of adoration for their dad seeing him up on that stage. Those are really good examples of cohesion and expressiveness. The cohesion, they were supporting their dad.
They looked really proud, as I said, and happy to see their dad in the spotlight doing what he does, what he loves to do. You could tell that there was support there. And then expressiveness, those visible expressions of emotions that [00:15:00] were not held back. And that were supported by the family members. Right?
So the parents weren't telling the kids to toughen up or shut it down or stop crying. No, feel the feels. Right? And it was contextually appropriate to feel those feels. It was a big moment and big emotions would make sense and we can navigate them in healthy ways when we are allowed to feel them. That's so important.
That depiction of that family, at least in the video, that went viral, I think that depicts what very much looks like a family who would score highly in cohesion and expressiveness. Which would also mean the family would probably score lower on imposter feelings. Those kids would score lower on imposter feelings.
On the flip side, there were folks who, [00:16:00] interestingly, were critiquing that video saying, you know, this is demonstrating weakness. Those emotions should be suppressed, essentially. I would say those critiques are an example of folks who probably grew up in a home where emotions and support were stifled.
They'd probably score low on cohesion and expressiveness, and might score higher on imposter feelings, imposter phenomenon scores. I think this is really interesting. It's important to consider. So these are factors that we can work on once we realize we may have been parented this way, or modeled this way, or fallen into this trap of rigid thinking, and it is a trap. It is an imposter trap because if we can't feel our emotions and work with them in healthy ways, then it stifles our growth, it stifles our wellbeing, it, it actually forces us to create something [00:17:00] that's sometimes called in, in like psychology research or literature, a false self.
We create a false self to please whoever is trying to stifle us or whoever we believe we need to prove something to- in this context that we're talking about. And just that, this creation of a false self takes us away from who we are and it amplifies imposter feelings because we are not letting folks see us, see who we are see the ways we feel and see the ways we move in this world.
All right, I want to highlight two other subscales of the family environment scales scale that was associated with imposter phenomenon. The conflict subscale and the control subscale. And your gut on the relationship here is probably right with imposter feelings. The conflict subscale looks at the amount of expressed anger and then just general [00:18:00] conflict in the family.
Here's what they found. The more conflict, the more imposter feelings. The control subscale measures how strong rules and procedures guide family behaviors. And it's not that rules or procedures are all bad or something, but when you're getting higher on this scale of control, it has to do more with how the rules are formed or enforced.
Like, who lords over them? If everything is rigid and unforgiving and under the rule of a dictator, then control is high. And imposter feelings are likely high as well. So, even if you're an old dog now, you can still learn these skills to shift this factor. Even if you're parented this way. We do this in Joy Lab.
This is great work as well to do in individual or group therapy to kind of share these childhood experiences. There are lots of ways to address this [00:19:00] and ways to improve this factor, the factors that we've talked about in your life. We can significantly decrease our own imposter feelings, and if you have kids in your life, you can decrease their risk for imposter feelings as well.
So number one, you don't have imposter syndrome, we have an expectation syndrome. So I've kind of hinted toward this, I think, in some of the prior factors, but it is worth putting right here at the top, because when it comes to imposter feelings and anxiety, they can be a consequence so often of unfairly expecting too many unnecessary things from others and ourselves.
So this is at the societal and individual level. Let me paint a picture. There is pressure to know all the things and never make a mistake as we've already talked about. To never get sick, whether or not you have health [00:20:00] insurance, get married once, have two kids at least, if you don't want to appear selfish, live in a Instagram looking house with a flashy new car, wear the right clothes, show the right emotions at the right time, weigh this much, have this job.
It is exhausting. And not only is it exhausting, it is impossible. When society has so many pressures that are both expected in many ways and impossible, then at best, it breeds a lot of anxiety and a lot of imposter feelings.
So you are not broken. Feeling like an imposter in an impossible system or under Impossible expectations that we put on ourselves is the correct feeling. You're nailing the insight. You should feel like an imposter in a system or under a set of expectations that is [00:21:00] expecting you to conform to impossible expectations. A lot of expectations there.
There's some really fascinating work here on something called Infiltrator Experience done by Dr. Nellie Tran that relates. I'll link to their article in the show notes. The idea here is that you are not an imposter, instead, you might be feeling the tension of coming into a space that is too rigid.
Rigid in expectations, in culture, in thought, practice, and you might be coming in maybe looking different, thinking in a different way, and the culture demands you conform in unrealistic and unnecessary ways. That's part of what I think was happening actually in the original research, on imposter phenomenon with doctors, Clance and Imes.
I think that was an element that was happening there. And thankfully, we're realizing that these kinds of rigid environments, they are toxic for individuals, no matter where you are in [00:22:00] the system, no matter who holds power. they're bad for business. If we're thinking about corporate culture, those systemic expectations obviously need an overhaul or the way we perpetuate them through our messaging, through social media, through, marketing, and also our unfair expectations on ourselves. Those need an overhaul too. And that is, that is all work we can do. And all of these factors, every single one, we can address these bit by bit.
You know, all six of these, we can create really meaningful change so that these imposter feelings hold us down less, show up less. So, I hope you've found something helpful here, through these six factors, one that resonates more with you that you can then take some action on. I know this is a tough topic.
It's mired in so many different contributors and [00:23:00] outcomes that, I mean, that impact our lives in so many different ways. It can be hard to know where to start. But I hope this has been helpful to find a place where you can take a step. So to close our time, I want to share some wisdom from author and teacher Sharon Salzberg.
I think it is the most important step you can take right now if you're feeling imposter feelings. Here it is. "You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection."
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