Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Henry: Hello, I'm Henry emmons and welcome to Joy Lab.
Aimee: And I'm Aimee Prasek. Here at Joy Lab we infuse science with soul to help you build your resilience and uncover your joy. And today, we are talking about Henry's favorite supplement, I think. ha! Maybe your favorite thing ever, which is magnesium!
Henry: Close, not quite, but close.
Aimee: In the running.
So, we're talking about magnesium and mental health, depression, anxiety.
We've talked about magnesium a bit in different episodes, but today I [00:01:00] just thought it would be helpful to hear, Henry, really more about how you use it in your clinical practice and just very specific about magnesium.
Henry: It's good to give magnesium its due.
Aimee: About time. So do you want to maybe talk broadly about this relationship between magnesium, depression, and anxiety.
It's like a big thing on TikTok right now.
Sure, sure.
Which you lot about.
Henry: What is it?
Tell me later.
Aimee: Yeah, I'll talk to you about it.
Henry: So, it's actually not that far from the truth, but...
so, magnesium is a mineral. I think everyone knows magnesium is a mineral and, just very broadly our bodies are made up of minerals and chemicals in a lot of water and so I kind of like to think that the earth and the stars are in us because we share these elements with all of nature. And magnesium is one of them and [00:02:00] it turns out to be a really important one for the body in a lot of ways not just related to mood but in many ways.
So, magnesium is involved especially with nerve and muscle function. And it has a lot to do with releasing after contracting. And so, whether that's a muscle that contracts and then needs to release so that it contracts again, or whether it's thinking about a neuron that has fired and it needs to release and reset itself so it can fire again. Magnesium is involved with that kind of that resetting process. So it has a lot to do with brain function. And it has a lot to do with muscle function and muscles, being able to stay Kind of soft and relaxed and non tense. It has a lot to do with the gut and gut health because you remember your gut is [00:03:00] largely made up of smooth muscle and so whether that's, functioning properly, contracting, releasing, moving things through, magnesium is really, really helpful for all of that. Magnesium is also a really important, it's not the key ingredient, but it's a very important side ingredient to the manufacture of some of the neurotransmitters, especially notable for serotonin. So I think it has a lot to do with mood and depression because it's, in terms of natural elements, it's one of the most important things we can do to help our bodies keep up with making enough serotonin is to have adequate amounts of magnesium. So, those are kind of the broad brushstrokes. And one of the reasons why it's so important to think about this as a supplement is because there is a lot of evidence that [00:04:00] even people who eat relatively healthy diets, they're somewhat deficient in magnesium. And that may be in part because the food that is grown in the soil, the soil itself, may not have adequate amounts of magnesium in, particular areas of the country or areas in the world or just because of the way the food is grown or because maybe you don't have enough variety in your diet to get a lot of different food sources and all of these things kind of play into it, but the research suggests quite clearly that many people with depression and anxiety very high percentage are deficient in this really important mineral called magnesium.
Aimee: So you noted magnesium just has all of these, functions that it supports in our body. And food sources, there's lots of them. We have a few, blogs that I'll link to for food sources.
[00:05:00] I just like to make a spinach, banana, peanut butter, dark chocolate smoothie when I'm like, "Mmm, I need some magnesium."
Henry: Aimee is dark chocolate known for having , lot of magnesium, or is that just sort of a side...?
Aimee: Ah no, it's, it's, in there. But there you go. So there's a little magnesium smoothie. But as we all know, there's a ton of supplements too.
And let's talk about those, because there's also different types of magnesium. I think it can get very confusing. There are types more associated with topical use, like magnesium sulfate. more commonly known as Epsom salts, magnesium chloride. I don't think we need to maybe talk about those unless you want to, Henry, but I think the most commonly used orally and that are associated with mental health, are, well and other functions we can talk about as well, well, magnesium citrate, glycinate, malate, lactate, l-threonate...
all of these [00:06:00] can get very confusing. We kind of talked about that in our lithium episode as well. just different forms. So So maybe if you could discuss a bit about what you use in your practice specifically as it supports mental health function.
Henry: Sure, so as you said, there's a lot of different types of magnesium and for those who aren't science geeks, the magnesium is a positive ion and it is connected to various negative ions, and so chloride is one and glycinate is another and threonate. Those are, so together they neutralize each other, just like table salt is sodium and chloride together.
So, so magnesium is connected to various other minerals in order to create a neutral one. And they have different properties. Not because of the magnesium, probably, but because of the other element. And the [00:07:00] two that I use almost exclusively are magnesium glycinate or some people say glycinate and then also the magnesium threonate, which is my preferred one for most people. But, some people prefer to take something like magnesium citrate because it's a little more likely to work against constipation, to, to kind of create more movement in the gastrointestinal tract. I find that using it long term, it's a little too harsh for most people. That movement gets to be a little too much.
And I think for most people, the other forms of magnesium are going to work just fine for that. You don't need to take the magnesium citrate every day. And I think the people who have sensitivity to the gut effects of magnesium are better off taking magnesium glycinate. But I think [00:08:00] almost everybody else, if you're using it for purposes of depression or anxiety or sleep or any kind of mood related thing, it's best to take magnesium l-threonate. Why? Because it gets absorbed more easily through the barrier that the brain has, it's called the blood-brain barrier, and so it gets into the brain where we're most interested in it having its effect.
Aimee: So let's talk a little bit then about how to use it. I would agree. I remember when that product, I think it's called Calm, came out, it was like I think it's citrate in there. Let me tell you,
Henry: I think you're right.
Aimee: My body was not calm after I took that.so there's something to say about, yeah, there's forms that, that don't work so well for other folks.
I, that is not something that works well in my body. I mean, it would if I needed it, but that's not [00:09:00] what I was using it for. So, if you don't want to break the toilet, can you talk about maybe the l-threonate as you like and glycinate? We can maybe focus on those and maybe time of day to take, I don't know if you want to talk about dosage, of course, with the note that folks need to talk to their doctors or practitioner before starting a new supplement.
Just some suggestions on how you use it in your own practice.
Henry: Sure. Let me just say one thing, though, about magnesium that gets absorbed through the skin, because I actually think for some people that is really helpful. So whether you take Epsom salt bath or if you want to get one of the lotions or creams that you can just rub on like a sore muscle or you can, you can rub it on your feet before bed to help kind of do a soothing ritual that help you fall asleep. But, if you have a lot of gastrointestinal sensitivity, it's a really nice way to still get the magnesium. Or if you have [00:10:00] other things you're trying to accomplish like muscle relaxation or sleep, I still think there's a good place for the topical forms of magnesium. But, generally speaking, what I'm using magnesium products for in my practice is for anxiety or depression. And I really think that you're getting a lot of complementary benefits from magnesium there because it is calming. It calms the nervous system. I think it supports that brain chemical called GABA, which is the really calming one. So it can slow down your rapid thinking or rumination. It can be very helpful for sleep. It can help with muscle relaxation, as we've said. And then it can help directly with mood, whether that mood is more of an anxious kind or more of a sluggish, depressed mood because it's good for boosting the neurotransmitters, the mood [00:11:00] neurotransmitters. So I use magnesium, I recommend it in almost all of my patients. There's rarely a time when I wouldn't recommend it. Just mostly those folks that their gut just can't tolerate it. And that is about the only common side effect from magnesium is causing it may be some cramping in your gut or some loose stools,or just sort of back and forth between constipation and loose stools and it's just not tolerable by everyone.
But if you get the right kind and the low enough dose, it is almost always well tolerated. And so I would usually have people take it at night. Because most people want to help with their sleep. Generally speaking, it's just easier to take supplements one time a day. And if you can do that at night, so much the better. And I think, you'll get lasting benefits throughout the day. If you [00:12:00] have a lot of anxiety, people who are just always kind of tense, anxious, restless, it might be good to take it twice a day, some in the morning and some in the evening. But just for simplicity's sake, if you can and if it helps your sleep, take it all at night.
Aimee: Do you recommend that your patients usually take it with food?
Henry: Yeah, good question. Not necessarily, but if it upsets the tummy, then yes, take it with food. But, but that's the only real reason you'd need to do that. I take it every night before bed myself. I use magnesium threonate and I do think it helps my sleep. So I take it just 45 minutes or so before bed and, I don't take it with food at that time.
And I'm just fine. It doesn't bother my stomach, but some people it, it might. And then, yeah, you're better off taking it with food. But, generally speaking, magnesium is one of the best tolerated of any natural therapies. I think it has among the broadest of [00:13:00] usefulness of any natural therapy, and I think it's very complementary to what medications or other natural things are trying to do. Magnesium is just a, it's a workhorse, and it does a lot of really good things for the brain and for the mood.
Henry: Awesome. So I hope this brush on magnesium is helpful. I'll leave some, other, resources in the show notes. So head there for more and can also see the show notes for some of the products that we like. And you can shop through our Fullscript store to also help keep this podcast thriving and ad free, which is very important to us because it would suck if there was a mid roll ad that came right in the middle of, when should I take my magnesium?
Aimee: And that starts talking about some unrelated thing. Anyway, to close this episode, I don't have a quote about magnesium, but I think I could tell a joke.
Henry: Go for it.
Aimee: Okay. I don't know if this is a joke. [00:14:00] So I was out last night and I saw oxygen and magnesium together. And I was like, OMG. Okay, if you don't get that joke, you can go to the show notes and we'll explain it, which is I think how all good jokes happen.
They need to be explained, right? Okay. Thanks, everybody.
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